Bida`ee Tawassul Refutation Series (Athar of Malik Ad Dar)

Athar of Malik al-Dar is quoted to prove asking help directly from grave of Prophet(pbuh) or any dead awliyas. This article not only highlights schoarly objections on the chain of narrators but also show that it infact this hadith goes against such people.

The Athar

It is related from Malik al-Dar, `Umar’s treasurer, that the people suffered a drought during the time of `Umar (his khilafah), whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet and said: “O Messenger of Allah, ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished,” after which the Prophet appeared to him in a dream and told him: “Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: You must be clever, you must be clever!” The man went and told `Umar. The latter said: “O my Lord, I spare no effort except in what escapes my power!””

a) Hafidh Ibne Hajar Asqalani said in Fath ul Bari

وروى ابن أبي شيبة بإسناد صحيح من رواية أبي صالح السمان عن مالك الداري

Ibn Abu Shaybah narrated it with a Authentic chain the narration from Abi Salih as Samaan from Malik al Dar(end)

b) Ibn Katheer authenticated the chain.


Firstly, I would like to mention that if we assume this athar to be authentic then it is going against those who ask help from Prophet peace be upon him in thier homes, mosques and on the roads etc because this athar says the unknown man came to the grave of Prophet peace be upon him, he did not ask help at his home or in Mosque by saying o Rasool Allah ask Allah for rain.

Secondly, Even at the grave he is not asking directly from the Prophet peace be upon him by saying O Rasool Allah help us (as some grave worshipers do on the graves of auliyah), rather the unknown person is asking Prophet to ask Allah. [This type of call at the grave is not act of kufr because one is not asking directly rather it is an innovation, some scholars like al Maqrizi ash-Shafiee who was student of al Iraqee, al Haytamiand al Balqini considered this one as Shirk in Uluhiyah, his quote is translated in our website]

a) This is the fatwa of Muhammad ibn Sulayman alKurdi Shafiee (d 1104) as he said after allowing tawassul through Prophets
أما جعل الوسائط بين العبد وبين ربه، فإن كان يدعوهم كما يدعو الله تعالى في الأمور ويعتقد تأثيرهم في شيء من دون الله فهو كفر، وإن كان مراده التوسل بهم إلى الله تعالى في قضاء مهماته مع اعتقاده أن الله هو النافع الضارّ المؤثر في الأمور فالظاهر عدم كفره وإن كان فعله قبيحاً
“ Regarding making intermediaries between the slave and His Lord: “If he asks them [i.e. the intermediaries] like he asks Allah in matters [i.e. directly], believing that they bring about effects in a matter and not Allah, then that is disbelief. And if the intention is tawassul through them to Allah, the Exalted, in the fulfilment of important matters, while believing that Allah is He who causes all benefit and harm in matters, and the one who brings about effects in matters, then apparently this is not disbelief, although his action is despicable.” (Bughyat al-Mustarshidin, p. 308, 369, translation copied from shafi fiqh website)

He said its a QABEEH/UGLY action, I wonder why the sufis still do this qabeeh action.

b) Shaykh Muhammad Basheer as-Sahsawani (1252 h-1326 h) said about Innovative Tawassul and Shirki Tawassul:
والتاسع: أن يقول عند قبر نبي أو صالح: يا سيدي فلان ادع الله تعالى أو نحو ذلك. فهذان القسمان مما لا يستريب عالم أنهما غير جائزين وأنهما مِن البدع التي لم يفعلها السلف. وإنْ كان السلام على القبور جائزاً.
العاشر: أن يقول عند قبر نبي أو صالح: يا سيدي فلان اشفِ مريضي واكشف عني كربتي وغير ذلك وهذا شرك جليّ
Ninth is that: He says at the grave of Prophet or righteous “Ya Sayyedi Fulaan” ask Allah or like that, There is no doubt for the scholars that these two types are not allowed and are in those innovations which the Salaf never did. Yes saying salam at the graves is allowed.
Tenth is that a person says at the grave of Prophet or righteous “Ya Sayyedi Fulaan” heal my patient, and solve my hardships etc. This is clear shirk [Siyanatal Insan an waswasah Ash-Shaykh Dahlaan page 212]

c) Ibn Uthaymeen said
الظاهر لي أن هذا من باب الشرك الأصغر؛ لأنه لم يطلب من هذا الميت أن يحصل مقصوده، أو أن يدفع مكروهه، وإنما سأله أن يسأل الله -عز وجل- ومعلوم أن الميت لا يمكن أن يسأل الله -عز وجل- لأن النبي -صلى الله عليه وسلم- قال: « إذا مات الإنسان انقطع عمله إلا من ثلاث: صدقة جارية، أو علم ينتفع به، أو ولد صالح يدعو له » وإن من السفه أن يتصور الإنسان أن الميت يمكنه الدعاء لمن طلبه منه الميت، لا يملك الدعاء، ولا يملك أن يكشف الضر، أما من دعا الميت بنفسه قال: يا فلان اكشف ما بي من ضر، وأعطني كذا وكذا، فهذا شرك أكبر لا شك فيه.
Apparently to me This is from minor shirk because he is not asking this mayyat to fulfill his need or to protect him from undesirable, but asked him to ask the Almighty God..It is known that the Dead can not ask Almighty God.. because the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him said: “If a person dies, his a’mal are severed, but three” Sadaqa al-Jariya, the useful knowledge or child who makes dua. and from stupidity is to believe that the dead can make dua. The dead can not make dua, and it can not protect one from the evil. But the one who asks directly the dead: “O So and so, protect me from the evil and give me such and such, it’s shirk al-akbar, no doubt.!” [Sharah Manzoomah al Qawaid wal Asool, Chapter ما يرفض حسا لا يقبل دعوى]

d) Shaykh Ibn ʻUthaymeen may Allaah have mercy upon him wrote:

“There is a difference between the case in which a person uses the supplication of a deceased man as tawassul (seeking nearness) to Allaah, asking this deceased person to supplicate to Allaah for him and that in which he asks him to fulfill his need. If he asks the dead person to fulfill his need, this is an act of major shirk. But if he asks the dead person to supplicate Allaah on his behalf, then this is a religious innovation because when the person dies, he can no longer do any deeds, and supplicating is a deed. How can someone ask a dead person to do what he cannot do; the actions of the deceased cease to exist, and it is impossible for him to supplicate Allaah for anyone. When someone asks a dead person to supplicate Allaah on his behalf, he would not do so. The same applies to passing by the grave of the Prophet, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, and asking him to intercede with Allaah for him; it is impermissible and a religious innovation. If one passes by the grave of the Prophet, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, and said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah! Save me from Hellfire,’ then that is a major act of shirk.” [Islamweb]

e) Shaykh al Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:
ولهذا استحب طائفة من متأخري الفقهاء من أصحاب الشافعي وأحمد، مثل ذلك، واحتجوا بهذه الحكاية التي لا يثبت بها حكم شرعي، لا سيما في مثل هذا الأمر الذي لو كان مشروعا مندوبا؛ لكان الصحابة والتابعون أعلم به وأعمل به من غيرهم، بل قضاء حاجة مثل هذا الأعرابي وأمثاله لها أسباب قد بسطت في غير هذا الموضع
A group of Later Shafiee and Hanbali Fuqaha said it is Mustahab to do this (i.e. what al Utbi did), And they take evidence from this story, if It was mandoob or mustahab then Sahaba and Tabiyeen would know about it more than others, they would do that practically. [Iqtidha Sirat al Mustaqeem 2/289]

2 Points to be noted here:

1. It was not done by Salaf and Shafiee and Hanbali scholars rather it was done by later fuqaha among the shafiee and Hanbali scholars.

2. Ibn Taymiyah considered those later fuqaha to be scholars rather than mushriqs. So clearly it was not shirk according to him rather an innovation which not a single companion and tabiyee did.

Ibn Taymiyah states:

“The same applies to the Prophets and the righteous people, even if they are still alive in their graves and able to supplicate Allaah in favor of the living, and even if reports were narrated to this effect, it is impermissible to ask the dead to supplicate on behalf of the living. None of the righteous predecessors had done so because it leads to shirk by associating the dead with Allaah in worship or worshiping them instead of Allaah…” [Qaaʻidah Jaleelah fi At-Tawassul wa Al-Waseelah, taken from Islamweb]

f) Islamweb states
“..this statement is not considered an act of Kufr [an act that takes a person out of the fold of Islam] because whoever says: “O Prophet of Allaah, ask Allaah to do such and such for me.”, he did not associate anything to Allaah, but he wanted to intercede with the supplication of the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) after his death. This is something that is not legislated in religion and that is why we mentioned that it is not permissible and that it is an innovation. We also mentioned the saying of the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ): “Whoever introduces an act that is not in accordance with ours (concerning religion), it will be rejected.” [Al-Bukhaari and Muslim]..”(end quote from Islamweb)

In short, there are two cases in asking the dead to ask Allah.

1. Asking the dead from far away to ask Allah thinking he can listen is shirk.

2. Asking the dead on his grave to Ask Allah thinking that he can listen as some scholars say the dead can hear sometimes, then its an innovation and may lead to shirk.

Thirdly, Prophet peace be upon him did not help him, rather He said (in his dream)“Go to Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered.” while the narration quoted by Ibn Abdul Barr in “al Isti’ab fi ma’rifat al As-hab” chapter of Umar states
إِيتِ عُمَرَ فَمُرْهُ أَنْ يَسْتَسْقِي لِلنَّاسِ، فَإِنَّهُمْ سَيُسْقَوْنَ،
“Go to ‘Umar and tell him to do istisqa’ (ask Allah for rain) for the people, and that they will be watered.”

and Ahmad Abdullah at Tabari in his book ar Riyadh an Nadhirah fi Manaqib al Ashara says the Prophet appeared to him in a dream and told him:
أئت عمر فمره أن يَسْتَسْقِي لِلنَّاسِ، فَإِنَّهُمْ سَيُسْقَوْنَ
Go to ‘Umar and tell him to do istisqa’ (ask Allah for rain) for the people, and that they will be watered.” [Note the arabic of these words are also mentioned by sufi Abul Hasan Hussain Ahmed in his response to this narration with the name of “The Blazing Star” page 132 without quoting the translation]

And we know when Allah helped Sahaba?, it was not when the unknown person asked Prophet peace be upon him to ask Allah rather it was when Umar bin al-Khattab prayed to Allah and also asked from Abbas ra to invoke Allah.

They also say Bilal bin Harith al Muzni asked help from the Prophet peace be upon him at his grave in drought.

But they failed to realize that when Bilal came to Umar ibn al Khattab ra and informed him about his dream, Umar asked people to gather for Salaat al Istesqa. And when people gathered, They said:
صدق بلال، فاستغثت الله تعالى والمسلمون
Bilal said the truth, You should ask ALLAH for the help and the Muslims (ask help from Muslims to ask Allah). [al Muntazim fe Tareekh al Mamlook 4/250]

Note: These narrations are not authentic at all, but this is in response to sufis who quote the half of these narrations to prove their shirk. The authentic narration is mentioned in al Bukharim which states.

Narrated Anas: Whenever drought threatened them, ‘umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-abbas bin ‘Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, “O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain.” And so it would rain. (BukhariBook #17, Hadith #123)
Let us see what Scholars understood from this athar

a) Imam al Bukhari mentioned above hadith under the chapter
“Chapter: Request of the people to the Imam to offer the Istisqa’ prayer”

b) Imam al Bayhaqi mentioned above hadith in
باب الاستسقاء بمن ترجى بركة دعائه
Chapter of asking someone to invoke Allah for rain whose dua has a hope of Barakah.

c) Ibn Hajar asqalani commented:
ويستفاد من قصة العباس استحباب الاستشفاع بأهل الخير والصلاح وأهل بيت النبوة
وفيه فضل العباس وفضل عمر لتواضعه للعباس ومعرفته بحقه .
“It is proven from the story of Abbâs that It is desirable to seek intercession from the virtuous, the pious and members of the Prophet’s family. In (this athar) there is a proof of virtues of al Abbas and Umar and The humbleness of (Umar ra) before al Abbas ra and his knowledge of his due right. [Fath al Bari 2/497]

d) Imam an-Nawawi said regarding this hadeeth:
يستحب أن يستسقى بالخيار من أقارب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وبأهل الصلاح من غيرهم ، وبالشيوخ والضعفاء والصبيان والعجائز وغير ذوات الهيئات من النساء ودليله ما ذكره المصنف
It is Mustahab to ask from the pious relative of Prophet peace be upon him and other pious people, The Shuyukh, The Weak ones, The Children, Old Women to ask Allah for rain, the evidence for this is mentioned by the Author. [al Majmoo Sharah al Muhzab 5/73]

e) Imam Ibn Abee Al Izz Hanafi states:
وإنما كانوا يتوسلون في حياته بدعائه ، يطلبون منه أن يدعو لهم ، وهم يؤمنون على دعائه ، كما في الاستسقاء وغيره . فلما مات صلى الله عليه وسلمقَالَ عُمَرُ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ لَمَّا خَرَجُوا يَسْتَسْقُونَ: اللَّهُمَّ إِنَّا كُنَّا إِذَا أَجْدَبْنَا نَتَوَسَّلُ إِلَيْكَ بِنَبِيِّنَا فَتَسْقِيَنَا، وَإِنَّا نَتَوَسَّلُ إِلَيْكَ بِعَمِّ نَبِيِّنَا. مَعْنَاهُ بِدُعَائِهِ هُوَ رَبَّهُ وَشَفَاعَتِهِ وَسُؤَالِهِ، لَيْسَ الْمُرَادُ أَنَّا نُقْسِمُ عَلَيْكَ [بِهِ]، أَوْ نَسْأَلُكَ بِجَاهِهِ عِنْدَكَ، إِذْ لَوْ كَانَ ذَلِكَ مُرَادًا لَكَانَ جَاهُ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَعْظَمَ وَأَعْظَمَ مِنْ جَاهِ الْعَبَّاسِ
The companions (May Allah be pleased with them all) used to seek a means to Allah during his lifetime through the Prophet’s own supplications. They used to ask him to pray for them. Then they would say, “Ameen” to his supplications, as was the case in al-istisqä (the prayer for rain) and other times. When the Prophet (Peace be upon him) died, Úmer said, when they went to make the prayer for rain, “O Allah, when we did not have we asked the Prophet to pray for us and You gave us rain. Now we ask you through the uncle of the Prophet. Then he asked Äbaas to pray for them and beseech Allah. He did not adjure Allah to give rain in the name of position which Äbaas had in Allah’s sight. If that had been the case, the Companions would have done by the Prophet’s position and honor, as he definitely had a greater and more honourable position with Allah than Abaas.[Sharah Aqeedah at-Tahawiya Pg: 237,238]

Fourthly, After this incident another person saw Prophet peace be upon him in the dream as said by Abdullah bin Obaid bin Umair:
عبد الرزاق ، عن معمر ، عن إسماعيل أبي المقدام ، عن عبد الله بن عبيد بن عمير قال : أصاب الناس سنة ، وكان رجل في بادية ، فخرج فصلى بأصحابه ركعتين واستسقى ثم نام ، فرأى في المنام أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أتاه ، وقال : ” أقرئ عمر السلام ، وأخبره أن الله قد استجاب لكم وكان عمر قد خرج فاستسقى أيضا ، وأمره فليوف العهد ، وليشد العقد قال : فانطلق الرجل حتى أتى عمر ، فقال : استأذنوا لرسول رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : فسمعه عمر ، فقال : من هذا المفتري على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ؟ فقال الرجل : لا تعجل علي يا أمير المؤمنين ، فأخبره الخبر فبكى عمر .
When the people suffered a drought a Man from desert prayed for the rain after leading two rakah to his companions. When he slept he saw Prophet peace be upon him came to him and said: Say my salam to Umar and tell him Allah has accepted his prayer as he prayed for the rain… He (the person) went to Umar`s door and said: Ask the permission from Umar for the messenger of Rasool Allah peace be upon him. Umar heard him and said: Who is this lying upon Prophet peace be upon him?
He said: Listen to me please before you say something. Then he told Umar whole story and Umar wept due to that. [al Musannaf Abdul Razzaq 3/93-94 chapter of al-Istesqa]

The chain of narrators.

1. Abdul Razzaq bin Hammam, Trustworthy, the author of al Musannaf.
2. Mo`mar bin Rashid is trustworthy, Imam al Hafidh, Shaykh al Islam. [Seyar A`lam an-Nubala under his biography] 3. Ismaeel Abul Miqdam, Mo`mar said regarding him “كان يثبج الحديث” i.e. “He did not narrated ahadith correctly”, and That “he was fabricator of hadith” but Abu Awama said, this is tahreef, the proven saying from Mo`mar is “كان يثبج الحديث”, and he is trustworthy according to Ibn Shaeen [in his Thiqaat] and Ibn Hibban. [see at-Thiqaat by Ibn Hibban (6/ 31)], and [Lisaan al Mizan by Ibn Hajr al Asqalani under his biography]. When sufis take from Saif bin Umar (The Liar), why not they take from the narrator like Ismaeel?
4. Abdullah bin Obaid bin Omair was a trustworthy tabiyee, He narrates Mursal from sahaba but He narrated from Ibn Umar ra and Ibn Zubayr ra, some even say he narrates from Aisha ra but that is not true, as he (Abdullah ibn Obayd ibn Omair) said: I was with my father in the time of Ibn az-Zubayr sitting beside Abdullah ibn Umar. [Sunan Abi Dawud 3759]. IF this is Mursal than why do you accept mursal ahadith and leave mursal athaar? You accept that athar of Malik ad-dar and leave these narrations?

So this athar itself goes against those who ask help from Auliyah and Prophets. Because Prophet peace be upon him corrected the unknown person that you will be watered after doing Istesqa, This point is also said by Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Tamiya as he said:
فإن قيل: فقد روي أن رجلاً أتى إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم عام الرمادة، فقال: يا رسول الله، هلكت أمتك، فادع الله لنا، فرأى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في المنام وقال: ائت عمر فقل: عليك بالكيس، ومره أن يستسقي بالناس، واستسقى عمر فسقي الناس.
So if its said : Its being reported that a person came to the grave of Prophet during drought , and he said :O Rasoolullah , The Ummah is being destroyed (due to famine) , Therefore Make Dua to Allah for us. Then the Prophet came to him in his dream and told .Go to Umar and say : to be wise and to make the Salathul Isthisqa with the people , Umar performed the Salathul Isthisqa along with the people

قيل: هذه الحكاية حجّة على المنازع، فإن هذا الرجل لما طلب منه، ما قال له: أنا أدعو لكم، بل أمرهم بما شرعه لهم، وسنه لهم،
Then its said this hikayah (story) is against then as the person who sought from him , The Prophet did not tell him I will pray for you , rather he ordered what is with the Shareah and to practice it for them

وهو أنهم يدعون الله، ويستسقون به. وفي الحكاية أنه قال /48أ/ له: قل لعمر: عليك بالكيس، أي بالاستقامة، فلما قال لعمر قال: ما آلو جهدي.
And that they prayed to Allah and sought the prayer to him and in this Hikayah he told to him (the unknown man)Say to Umar :to be wise , which means to be right , then Umar told to him : I spare no efforts except from my striveness

فهذا فيه أنه أمرهم بطاعة الله ورسوله وأمرهم بالاستسقاء، وهذا هو شرعه الذي شرعه لهم في حياته، فلم يأمرهم بعد الموت إلا بما أمرهم في حياته،
Therefore in this report The prophet ordered them to obey Alah , obey his Prophet and ordered them to offer Salathul Isthisqa , and this is what the Shareeah says and which is legislated to them during his lifetime , He did not order them after the death , except what was ordered during his lifetime

وهذا الرجل الذي قال له: ادع لأمتك، مجهول، ما هو من المهاجرين، والأنصار، الذين يقتدى بهم، ويكفيك أنه لم يأت أحد منهم إلى قبره يطلب منه الدعاء إلا رجل مجهول، لا يُعرف، فأما المهاجرون والأنصار الذين هم أعلم الناس بدينه، وأتبعهم له
And this perosn the one who told , to make Dua for the Ummah , is unknown, he is not from the Muhajiroon or Ansaar , to be followed and and its sufficient that none of them came to his Qabr to request Dua except this unknown person, nothing is known abt him and as far as the Muhajiroon and Ansaar is concerned they are the ones among people in terms of knowledge and to be followed

، فلم يأت أحد إليه، ولم يطلب منه الدعاء، ثم هذا الطالب للدعاء لم يُعط طلبته ، ولا قال: أنا أدعو لكم، بل قال: أطيعوا أمري، وادعوا أنتم الله يجيبكم.
None of them ever went to the Prohpets grave and none requested Dua from him , then this request , he did not grant his request , and did not say that I will make Dua for you rather told to obey his command which is that you all should make Dua to Allah for him to answer your request
(end quote from قاعدة عظيمة في الفرق بين عبادات أهل الإسلام والإيمان وعبادات أهل الشرك والنفاق p. 116)

In Short

If we accept the chain of narrators of the hadith of al Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba and the above mentioned athar of al Musannaf Abdul Razzaq than, In short it means:

1. Prophet peace be upon him corrected the aqeedah of the person who saw him (peace be upon him) in a dream and said that ask Umar ra to pray for rain.
2. Umar ra prayed for the rain by using the prayer of Abbas ra as means. Not the dhaat of Prophet peace be upon him.
3. Another person prayed for the rain and Prophet peace be upon him came into his dream and said Allah accepted the prayer of Umar, He peace be upon him did not say I asked Allah.
4. These incidents only proves the point of Ahlus sunnah, and go against the innovative tawassul of ahlul bidah
Fifthly, Muftis of Islamweb said “Going to the Prophet’s grave to supplicate is something which Allaah and His Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, did not legislate for this nation; the rightly guided caliphs and the first and foremost of the Muhaajiroon (those who migrated from Makkah to Madeenah) and the Ansaar (the citizens of Madeenah who helped and gave aid to the Muhaajireen) and also the companions and those who followed them exactly (in faith) [the Salaf], would certainly have done so, had this act been legislated and permissible. On the contrary, it was reported that they rebuked whoever did so.

Ali Ibn Al-Hussein, may Allaah be pleased with him, when he saw a man coming to an opening space around the Prophet’s, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, grave entering to this place and supplicating, he prohibited him from doing so and told him: ”Shall I not narrate to you a narration by my father from my grandfather that the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said: ”Do not take my grave as an ‘Eed [a festival, a place of worship], and do not take your homes as graves, and exalt my mention, as whoever exalts my mention it arrives to me wherever you are.”, reported by Adh-Dhiyyaa’ Al-Maqdissi and Al-Bukhaari, may Allaah have mercy on them, in his book “at-Taareekh al-Kabeer”.[Islamweb]

let us see objections on the this athar.

Objections on this Athar

1. If the chain is Authentic that does not mean it can be applied to the Text.(Asool al Hadeeth) and what was the aqeedah of Ibn Kathir
2. According to Asharis the hadeeth Should be Mutwatir for creed so even if it is proven saheeh its not Hujjah for them because it is not Mutwatir.
3. We can not Base our Creed from Dreams because Islam is Complete.
4. Abu Muawiyah Muhammad bin Khazim himself said his teacher alAmash is Mudallis, and The narration in Tareekh al Kabeer has a shorter version without the story of this unknown person.
Malik Ad Dar is disputed Over (some says Known and Some says Unknown).
Inqita (discontinuity in the chain) between Abu Salih As Samaan and Malik Ad Darr.
Amash is Mudallis and narrating from (AN).
Scholars on the hadith of Umar ra
Not a single scholar mentioned this narration under Istigatha or Tawassul through the Prophet peace be upon him
Objection no: 1 ( If the chain is authentic that does not mean it can be applied to the Text. and the aqeeda of Ibn Kathir)

Ibn Katheer and Ibn Hjar never authenticated hadeeth but the chain

Proof for this claim is as follows

Dr Hatem al-Haj said: The hadeeth is controversial. There are many (‘illahs) subtle defects in it. It is noteworthy here to also point out that Ibn Katheer and Ibn Hajar (may Allah bestow mercy on them) authenticated its chain of narrators, not the hadeeth itself, and that is different in the language of the scholars of hadeeth.[AmjaOnline Fatwa id 87015]

a) Ibn Katheer says:

” الحكم بالصحة أو الحسن على الإسناد لا يلزم منه الحكم بذلك على المتن ، إذ قد يكون شاذاً أو معللاً ”
The fact that the chain is deemed to be authentic or hasan does not necessarily mean that the same applies to the text,because it may be shaadhdh (odd) or mu’allal (faulty). [Ikhtisaar ‘Uloom al-Hadeeth (p. 43).]

Important Note: Ibne Katheer Authenticated the chain of the hadith of Malik ad Dar but as it is evident according to him if chain is authentic that does not mean text is also authentic, See some examples

1. He authenticated the chain of the hadeeth of Mahmood bin Lobaid in prohibition of saying three divorces at a time in (Irshad al Faqeeh Vol 2 page 194) by saying “Narrated by Nisai with good and powerful chain” but he himself said in his (Commentary of Quran Under 2:229) regarding same narration that “There is Inqitah (Discontinuity) in the chain”.

2. Ibn Katheer also authenticated the chain of the athar where Umar ra sent a letter to Amr bin al Aas ra and asked his help but after quoting that he criticised the text of the narration [see Al Bidaya wal Nihaya vol 7 page 91 year 18 and our article Refutation of GF Haddad on asking help]

3. Ibn Katheer also considered al-Amash a Mudallis as he mentioned when he was talking about Mudallis and Tadlees:
قال ابن الصلاح: والصحيح التفصيل بين ما صرح فيه بالسماع فيقبل، وبين ما أتى فيه بلفظ محتمل فيرد.
قال: وفي الصحيحين من حديث جماعة من هذا الضرب كالسفيانَين والأعمش وقتادة وهشيم وغيرهم.
قلت: وغاية التدليس أنه نوع من الإرسال لما ثبت عنده، وهو يخشى أن يصرح بشيخه فيُرد من أجله، والله أعلم.
Ibn al Salaah said: True is that if he (the Mudallis) mention his hearing then it is accepted otherwise it is rejected.
He said: In Sahihayn there are many narrations from the group (of Mudalliseen) of this type like the Two Sufiyans (at-Thawri and Ibn Uyiniyah), al-Amash, Qatadah, Hushaym and others.
I (Ibn Katheer) say: The extreme of Tadlees is that He (the Mudallis) did Irsal on (the hadeeth) which is proven according to him, He thinks that If i take the name of my teacher then this (hadeeth) will be rejected. [Ikhtisar Ulum al Hadeeth 1/160]

Comment: These statements of Ibn Katheer are proving that when the Isnaad of hadith is sahih that does not mean the text is also sahih according to him. Specially when the Aqeedah of Ibn Katheer was totally different.

What was the Aqeeda of Ibn Kathir

1. He mentioned a practice of umar bin al Khattab which is total destruction of shirk, and not only he authenticated the narration rather he accepted the text as well.
In stories of the Prophets and Al bidaya wal nihaya he mentioned:

Abu al-Aaliyah (rahimahullah) said
حدثنا أحمد قال : نا يونس بن بكير عن أبي خلدة بن دينار قال : نا أبو العالية قال لما فتخنا تستر وجدنا في بيت مال الهرمزان سريراً عليه رجل ميت عند رأسه مصحف له فأخذنا المصحف فحملنا إلى عمر بن الخطاب فدعا له كعباً فنسخه بالعربية فأنا أول رل من العرب قرأته مثلما أقرأ القرآن هذا فقلت لأبي العالية: ما كان فيه ؟ فقال سيرتكم وأموركن ولحون كلامكم وما هو كائن بعد قلت : فما صنعتم بالرجل ؟. قال حفرنا بالنهار ثلاثة عشر قبراً متفرقة فلما كان الليل دفناه وسوينا القبور كلها لتعمية على الناس لا ينبشونه ، قلت وما يرجون منه ؟قال: كانت السماء إذا جست عليهم برزوا بسريره فيمطرون قلت من كنتم تظنون الرجل ؟ قال رجل يقال له دنيال فقلت ، منذ كم وجدتموه مات ؟ قال : منذ ثلاثمائة سنة قلت : ما كان تغير بشيء ؟ قال : لا إلا شعيرات من قفاه ، إن لحوم الأنبياء لاتبليها الأرض ولا تأكلها السباع
Abul Aalia said: “When Tastar was invaded, we found, in the treasure house of Al-Harmazan, a bed on which lay a dead man, with a holy script at his bedside. We took the scripture to Umar Ibn Al-Khattab. He called Ka’b and he translated it into Arabic, and I was the first Arab to read it. I read it as I read the Quran.” Here, I (i.e. Khalid Ibn Dinar) said to Abul Aalia: “What was in it?” He said: “Life history, annals, songs, speech, and what is to come.” I asked: “And what did you do with the man?” He said: “We dug in the river bank thirteen separate graves. At nightfall we buried him and leveled all the graves in order to mislead people for they would tamper with him.” I asked: “And what did they want from him?” He said: “When the sky was cloudless for them, they went out with his bed, and it rained.” I asked: “Who did you think the man was?” He said: “A man called Daniel.” I asked: “And for how long had he been dead when you found him?” He said: ‘Three hundred years.” I asked: “Did not anything change on him?” He said: “No, except for the hairs of his face (beard and mustache); the skin of the prophets is not harmed by the earth, nor devoured by hyenas.”
[Narrated by Ibne Abi Duniya, Muhammad bin Ishaq in Maghazi, Al-Bayhaqi in Dalaa’il an-Nubuwwah (1/381),Mentioned by Ibne Kathir in his book Stories of the Prophets and Authenticated]

Ibn Katheer Authenticated in the stories of the Prophet and said:
وَهَذَا إِسْنَادٌ صَحِيحٌ إِلَى أَبِي الْعَالِيَةِ، وَلَكِنْ إِنْ كَانَ تَارِيخُ وَفَاتِهِ مَحْفُوظًا مِنْ ثَلَاثِمِائَةِ سَنَةٍ فَلَيْسَ بِنَبِيٍّ بَلْ هُوَ رَجُلٌ صَالِحٌ، لِأَنَّ عِيسَى بن مَرْيَمَ لَيْسَ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ نَبِيٌّ بِنَصِّ الْحَدِيثِ الَّذِي فِي الْبُخَارِيِّ، وَالْفَتْرَةُ الَّتِي كَانَتْ بَيْنَهُمَا أَرْبَعُمِائَةِ سَنَةٍ، وَقِيلَ سِتُّمِائَةٍ وَقِيلَ سِتُّمِائَةٍ وَعِشْرُونَ سَنَةً، وَقَدْ يَكُونُ تَارِيخُ وَفَاتِهِ مِنْ ثَمَانِمِائَةِ سَنَةٍ وَهُوَ قَرِيبٌ مِنْ وَقْتِ دَانْيَالَ، إِنْ كَانَ كَوْنُهُ دَانْيَالَ هُوَ الْمُطَابِقَ لِمَا فِي نَفْسِ الْأَمْرِ، فَإِنَّهُ قَدْ يَكُونُ رَجُلًا آخَرَ إِمَّا مِنَ الْأَنْبِيَاءِ أَوِ الصَّالِحِينَ، وَلَكِنْ قَرُبَتِ الظُّنُونُ أَنَّهُ دَانْيَالُ لِأَنَّ دَانْيَالَ كَانَ قَدْ أَخَذَهُ مَلِكُ الْفُرْسِ فَأَقَامَ عِنْدَهُ مَسْجُونًا كَمَا تَقَدَّمَ.
وَقَدْ رُوِيَ بِإِسْنَادٍ صَحِيحٍ إِلَى أَبِي الْعَالِيَةِ أَنَّ طُولَ أَنْفِهِ شِبْرٌ، وَعَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ بِإِسْنَادٍ جَيِّدٍ أَنَّ طُولَ أَنْفِهِ ذِرَاعٌ، فَيَحْتَمِلُ عَلَى هَذَا أَنْ يَكُونَ رَجُلًا مِنَ الانبياء الاقدمين قبل هَذِه المدد.

“The chain of citation from Abul Aa’lia is good, but if the date of the dead man’s death was really three hundred years, then he was not a prophet but a saintly Man, because there was no prophet between Isa (Jesus)(pbuh), and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), according to the hadith in Bukhari. The span between them (the dead man and Muhammad (pbuh)) was variously reported as four hundred, six hundred, and six hundred twenty years. It could be that he had died eight hundred years earlier, which would be near to Daniel’s time, if his being Daniel is correct. However, he could still have been somebody else, either a prophet or a saint. Yet the truth is more likely he was Daniel, because he had been taken by the King of Persia and remained imprisoned as already mentioned.
It was narrated with a correct citation that his nose as one span (nine inches) long. Anas Ibn Malik, with a good citation, said that his nose was an arm’s stretch long (two feet), on which basis he is thought to be an ancient prophet from before this period. Almighty Allah knows best.” [Qasas al Anbiya uner the Story of Danial Aleh salam]

This narration negates the narration of Maalik ad-dar and also is a proof that Ibn Katheer never had the aqeedah of asking help from the Prophets and Auliyah. Ibn Katheer also did istedlaal from the above narration in his tafseer of Qur`an, He Mentioned under the commentary of Surah Al Kahaf Ayah 21

“It is narrated from Commander of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab
أنه لما وجد قبر دانيال في زمانه بالعراق، أمر أن يخفى عن الناس، وأن تدفن تلك الرقعة التي وجدوها عنده، فيها شيء من الملاحم وغيرها.
that when he found the grave of Danyal (Daniel) in Iraq during his period of rule, he gave orders that news of this grave should be withheld from the people, and that the inscription they found containing mention of battles etc should be buried.” (end)

2. Allah says: And ask those of Our messengers whom We sent before thee: Did We ever appoint gods to be worshipped beside the Beneficent?(43:45)

Commentary of Ibn kathir says
قال مجاهد في قراءة عبد الله بن مسعود رضي الله عنه: (واسأل الذين أرسلنا إليهم قبلك رسلنا). وهكذا حكاه قتادة والضحاك والسدي عن ابن مسعود رضي الله عنه، وهذا كأنه تفسير لا تلاوة، والله أعلم. وقال عبد الرحمن بن زيد بن أسلم: واسألهم ليلة الإسراء؛ فإن الأنبياء عليهم الصلاة والسلام جمعوا له، واختار ابن جرير الأول، والله أعلم.

Mujahid said that `Abdullahbin Mas`ud recited it: (وَاسْأَلِ الَّذِينَ أَرْسَلْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ قَبْلَكَ (مِنْ) رُسُلِنَا) (And ask those whom We sent before you of Our Messengers.) This was narrated by Qatadah, Ad Dahak and as-Suddi from Ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleasedwith him. Yet this appears to be an explanation rather than an alternate version of recitation. so meaning is that ask to those people to whom these messengers were sent, abdul rehman said ask to the anbiya, meaning in the night of meraj and ibn e jareer hold the first one

It is Clearly Refuting the stance that we can ask anbiya in this world because Ibne Kathir and ibn e jareer knew, that it is impossible for Prophet peace be upon him to ask anbiya in this world (other then a miracle) so they preferred first opinion.

3. Now Explicit Saying of Ibn Kathir himself

Ibn Kathir said under the Biography of Sayyiyadah Nafeesah in Al Bidaya wal Nihaya
والذي ينبغي أن يعتقد فيها ما يليق بمثلها من النساء الصالحات، وأصل عبادة الأصنام من المغالاة في القبور وأصحابها، وقد أمر النبي بتسويه القبور وطمسها، والمغالاة في البشر حرام
ومن زعم أنها تفك من الخشب ( هكذا ) أو أنها تنفع أو تضر بغير مشيئة الله فهو مشرك.رحمها الله وأكرمها.)

The AITEQAAD(creed) regarding her is not applicable for righteous women like her, The Origon of Idol worship is Exaggeration for graves and people of graves(the person who is in the grave), That is why Prophet peace be upon him ordered to level and Obliterate the graves, andExaggerating for any Man is Prohibited, It is alleged.. (whoever think) they can benefit or harm without the will of Allah is Mushrik. (end quote)

4. Ibn Kathir did Talkhees of the book of Ibn Taymiyah “Radd al Bukri”. It is refutation of Noor al Din alBukri ash-Shafiee on the issue of Istegatha through dead. Ibn Kathir went with the opinions of Ibn Tamiyah on the issue of Istegatha and the name of Talkhees is “Talkhees Kitab al Istegatha”.

Ibn Kathir said regarding alBukri
الشيخ الإمام الزاهد نور الدين أبو الحسن علي بن يعقوب بن جبريل البكري المصري الشافعي، له تصانيف، وقرأ مسند الشافعي على وزيرة بنت المنجا، ثم إنه أقام بمصر، وقد كان في جملة من ينكر على شيخ الاسلام ابن تيمية، أراد بعض الدولة قتله فهرب واختفى عنده كما تقدم لما كان ابن تيمية مقيما بمصر، وما مثاله إلا مثال ساقية ضعيفة كدرة لا طمت بحرا عظيما صافيا، أو رملة أرادت زوال جبل، وقد أضحك العقلاء عليه، وقد أرا السلطان قتله فشفع فيه بعض الأمراء، ثم أنكر مرة شيئا على الدولة فنفي من القاهرة إلى بلدة يقال لها: ديروط، فكان بها حتى توفي يوم الاثنين سابع ربيع الآخر، ودفن بالقرافة، وكانت جنازته مشهورة غير مشهودة، وكان شيخه ينكر عليه إنكاره على ابن تيمية، ويقول له أنت لا تحسن أن تتكلم.
Shaykh Imam Zaahid Noor al din Abul Hasan bin Yaqoob bin Jibreel al Bukri al Misree ash Shafiee, He wrote books, He recited Musnad ash-Shafiee in front of Wazeerah bint al Manja. Then he resided in egypt. He is in those who are against Shykh al Islam Ibn Tamiyah as a whole. Some of the people of power wanted to kill him and he ran away and took shelter from him (Ibn Tamiyah) as it is mentioned earlier, because Ibn Tamiyah lived in Egypt. His (al Bukri) example is like weak canal who wants to slap Pure and Great Ocean (Ibn Tamiyah), or like the sand (al Bukri) who wants to remove Mountain (Ibn Tamiyah). He made the wise people laugh at him. Sultan wanted to kill him but some of the Umaraa favoured him, Then he rejected somethings of the state and he was thrown out from al Qaahirah to the city called Dewroot. He was there untill he died on Monday 7th of Rabi ul Akhir. He was buried in Qurafa. His funereal was famous but not seen. His teacher used to reject him due to going against Ibn Tamiyah. He said You do not talk good [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya vol 14 page 136]

Comment: So, for Ibn Kathir the stances of al Bukri against Ibn Tamiyah are false. Ibn Tamiyah was pure ocean the mountain and al Bukri who supported Istegatha is a small dirty canal and a sand againt mountain. Own sayings of Ibne Kthir is different, Quoting something in book never means the author agrees with it.

He also said al-Bukri was stopped to give fatwa and thrown out from the city
وذلك لاجترائه وتسرعه على التكفير والقتل والجهل الحامل له على هذا وغيره.
This was because he dared to (give fatawa on) takfeer and killing very early and his ignorance was the reason behind this [AlBidaya wal Nihaya vol 14 page 89]

Comment: This is the same attitude of brailwis in Pakistan. They did takfir of everyone who do not agree with them.

5. Ibn Kathir said regarding pious people:

“Allah describes the Muttaqin, His pious servants, whom He promised tremendous rewards, (Those who say: “Our Lord! We have indeed believed”) in You, Your Book and Your Messenger. (so forgive us our sins) because of our faith in You and in what You legislated for us. Therefore, forgive us our errors and shortcomings, with Your bounty and mercy, (and save us from the punishment of the Fire.)” [Tafsir Ibn Kathir 2/23 under 3:16]

b) Hafidh Ibn Hajr asqalani

He never authenticated the athar even according to him if chain is authentic that does not mean hadeeth is also authentic for example he himself weakened the hadith of Amash where he is narrating from the mode (An) Ibne Hajar said

لأنه لا يلزم من كون رجاله ثقات أن يكون صحيحا لأن الأعمش مدلس ولم ينكر سماعه من عطاء

Because trustworthiness of the chain does not mean that its sahih (meaning hadeeths is sahih) Amash is mudallis and he did not narrate his sama from Ataa[Talkhees al hubeer no: 1181]

Comment: This is a proof that Hafiz Ibne Hajar and Ibne Kathir never authenticated the athar itself, and according to Ibn Hajar Amash is not proof in his tadlees.

Ibn Hajar al asqalani said:
ويستفاد من قصة العباس استحباب الاستشفاع بأهل الخير والصلاح وأهل بيت النبوة
وفيه فضل العباس وفضل عمر لتواضعه للعباس ومعرفته بحقه .
“It is proven from the story of Abbâs that It is desirable to seek intercession from the virtuous, the pious and members of the Prophet’s family. In (this athar) there is a proof of virtues of al Abbas and Umar and The humbleness of (Umar ra) before al Abbas ra and his knowledge of his due right. [Fath al Bari 2/497]

He also provided the proof of recommended tawassul he is talking about from two sahaba (Muawiyah and Zahhak bin Qais), He said:
وأخرج أبو زرعة الدمشقي ويعقوب بن سفيان في تاريخيهما بسند صحيح عن سليم بن عامر أن الناس قحطوا بدمشق فخرج معاوية يستسقي بيزيد بن الأسود فسقوا قال أبو زرعة حدثنا أبو مسهر حدثنا سعيد بن عبد العزيز أن الضحاك بن قيس خرج يستسقي بالناس فقال ليزيد بن الأسود قم يا بكاء
Abu Zur`a ad-Damishqi and Yaqub bin Sufiyan mentioned in their books on tareekh with authentic chain from Saleem bin Aamir that when people face drought in Damishq then Muawiya went out to pray for rain through Yazeed bin al Aswad.

Abu Zur`a narrated from Saeed bin Abdul Aziz that When Zahhak bin qais (Sahabi) came out to pray for rain, and asked Yazeed bin al Aswad: Stand O the one who weep a lot in prayers. [al Isaba fe Tameez al Sahaba 6/697]

All of this proves the recommended tawassul rather than innovative tawassul. Following are the wordings of the dua made by Muawiyah ra:

أن السماء قحطت فخرج معاوية بن أبي سفيان وأهل دمشق يستسقون فلما قعد معاوية على المنبر قال : أين يزيد بن الأسود الحرشي ؟ فناداه الناس فأقبل يتخطى الناس فأمره معاوية فصعد على المنبر فقعد عند رجليه فقال معاوية : اللهم إنا نستشفع إليك اليوم بخيرنا وأفضلنا اللهم إنا نستشفع إليك اليوم بيزيد بن الأسود الحرشي يا زيد ارفع يديك إلى الله فرفع يديه ورفع الناس أيديهم فما كان أوشك أن ثارت سحابة في الغرب كأنها ترس وهبت لها ريح فسقتنا حتى كاد الناس أن لا يبلغوا منازلهم
“The sky withheld any rain, so Muawiyah Ibn Abee Sufyan and the people of Damascus went out to pray for rain. When Muawiyah sat upon the minbar he said: “O Allah! We are today asking the best and most noble amongst us to supplicate to You for us, O Allah, today we put Yazeed Ibn al-Aswad al-Jurashee forward to supplicate to You for us.” Then Yazeed raised his hands and so did the people, and it rained until people could hardly reach their houses” [al Muarifat at-Tareekh Yaqub bin Sufiyan 2/219, Tareekh Damishq 65/112, the narration is authentic according to Ibn Hajr and al Albani]

To know about the actual aqeeda of Ibn Hajar al asqalani please read the following article

“The Creed of Ibn Hajar Asqalani VS extreme Soofiyah” InshaAllah Read more:

c) Al-Haafiz ibn al-Salaah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

” قولهم : ( هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد أو حسن الإسناد ) دون قولهم : هذا حديث صحيح أو حديث حسن لأنه قد يقال : هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد ، ولا يصح لكونه شاذا أو معللا ”
When they say “This hadeeth has a saheeh isnaad or a hasan isnaad” instead of “this is a saheeh hadeeth or a hasan hadeeth”, that is because it may be said that this hadeeth has a saheeh isnaad but it is not saheeh per se because it is shaadhdh (odd) or mu’allal (faulty). [Muqaddimah fi ‘Uloom al-Hadeeth (p. 23)]

d) Al-‘Iraaqi said in his Alfiyyah:

” والحكم للإسناد بالصحة أو *** بالحسن دون الحكم للمتن رأوا ”
The ruling that the isnaad is saheeh or hasan does not necessarily apply to the text. [Al-Tabsirah wa’l-Tadhkirah (1/107)]

Objection no: 2.(According to Asharis the hadeeth Should be Mutwatir for creed so even if it is proven saheeh its not Hujjah for them because it is not Mutwatir.)

Dr Hatem al-Haj said: Some of those who accepted this hadeeth, are the same who maintain that such matters can be only established through mutawatir reports. The undeniable established default is to only ask Allah. Thus, any variation requires a clear proof.[Amja Online fatwa id 87015]

So, Its a well know fact that those who use this athar as an evidence they don’t make creed on khabar al wahid.

GF Haddad a Soofi says regarding establishing aqeedah and accused Shaykh Al Bani Rah

It is impermissible to say that the `aqida of Muslims today is different from that of the Sahaba but Ahl al-Sunna only admit mutawatir-rank evidence as a basis in defining Islamic `aqida. Only a handful of innovators such as Albani differed.

source: (see question no: 7)

What is a Mutwatir hadeeth??

Ibn Hajar mentioned regarding Mutwatir

As such, a Hadith is classified as Mutawatir only when it fulfils the following conditions:
1) It is reported by such a large number of narrators that under normal circumstances it would be impossible for them to conspire a lie.
2) Such a number exists throughout the chain of narration, i.e. from the beginning to the end.
3) The reporters must base their report on sense perception, i.e. on something that is heard or seen.
4) That the narration necessitates certain knowledge for the listener. (Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani, Sharh Nukhba al-Fikr, P.21).

Objection no: 3 (We can not Base our Creed from Dreams because Islam is Complete.)

Allah says in Chapter 5 verse 3: … This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion…

Dr Hatem al-Haj said: Dreams by someone who is not a prophet or even a known companion, are not a proper means of communicating the revelation and establishing religious rulings in any matter, let alone the matters of ‘aqeedah[Amja online fatwa id: 87015]

a) Hafidh Ibne Katheer said

وقد ذكر الحافظ بن عساكر في ترجمة أحمد بن كثير وقال إنه كان من الصالحين أنه رأى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وأبا بكر وعمر وهابيل، أنه استحلف هابيل ان هذا دمه فحلف له وذكر أنه سأل الله تعالى أن يجعل هذا المكان يستجاب عنده الدعاء فأجابه إلى ذلك وصدقه في ذلك رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وقال إنه وأبا بكر وعمر يزورون هذا المكان في كل يوم خميس وهذا منام لو صح عن أحمد بن كثير هذا لم يترتب عليه حكم شرعي والله أعلم
Hafidh Ibne Asakir mentioned in the Biography of Ahmad bin Katheer, he said he was in Pious People and he saw Prophet peace be upon him,Abu bakar RadhiAllahanho, Omar RadhiAllahAnho and Habeel (and after quoting whole dream he said) هذا لم يترتب عليه حكم شرعي والله أعلم that is it is not Ruling of Shariy`ah. Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya vol 1 Page 105 and 106

b) Imam Nawawi said:

{فَرْعٌ} لَوْ كَانَتْ لَيْلَةُ الثَّلَاثِينَ مِنْ شَعْبَانَ وَلَمْ يَرَ النَّاسُ الْهِلَالَ فَرَأَى إنْسَانٌ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِي الْمَنَامِ فَقَالَ لَهُ اللَّيْلَةُ أَوَّلُ رَمَضَانَ لَمْ يَصِحَّ الصَّوْمُ بِهَذَا الْمَنَامِ لَا لِصَاحِبِ الْمَنَامِ وَلَا لغيره ذكره القاضي حسين فِي الْفَتَاوَى وَآخَرُونَ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا وَنَقَلَ الْقَاضِي عِيَاضٌ الْإِجْمَاعَ عَلَيْهِ وَقَدْ قَرَّرْتُهُ بِدَلَائِلِهِ فِي أَوَّلِ شَرْحِ صَحِيحِ مُسْلِ

”Fara’: If the night is thirteenth night of Sha’baan, and people don’t find. (the moon never appeared). And if a person saw the Prophet, may the mercy and blessing of Allah be upon him, in dream. And the Prophet inform him (in dream), ”this night is first of Ramadhan.” Then the fast is not right, neither for the person who saw the dream nor for other. This is mentioned by Qadhi Husain and others. And Qadhi Iyadh has mentioned the Ijma’ (consensus) on this. I have collected the proofs for it in First of ”Sharh Sahih Muslim”[‘Al-Majmoo’ Sharh

c) Ibn Hajar said

فالذي في الخبر رؤيا منام فلا حجة

The dream in this hadith is not evidence [Fathul Baari :Vol 9 Page 145]

d) Al Aini said

فالذي في الخبر رؤيا منام فلا حجة فيه

The dream in this hadith is not evidence [Umda tul Qari under same Athar of Thobiya]

e) Kirmani said

الرؤيا ليست بدليل
Dream is not evidence

f) Hafidh Al Iraqi Said

أنه لو أخبر صادق عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في النوم بحكم شرعي مخالف لما تقرر في الشريعة لم نعتمده

If any truthful gives the information of Shariyah that Prophet(pbuh) told him in dream, which is against the Shariyah then we would not rely on that dream.
[طرح التثريب ص 215 / 8].

Comment: Meaning if some one say Prophet peace be upon him told me this and this in the dream, but in reality the sayings of Prophet peace be upon him in the dream is against actual sayings mentioned in ahadeeth, then we will reject the dream of the person

g) Hafidh Shatibi Said

وربما قال بعضهم : رأيت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في النوم ، فقال لي كذا وأمرني بكذا ، فيعمل بها ويترك بها معرضاً عن الحدود الموضوعة في الشريعة ، وهو خطأ ، لأن الرؤيا من غير الأنبياء لا يحكم بها شرعاً على حال إلا أن تعرض على ما في أيدينا من الأحكام الشرعية ، فإن سوغتها عمل بمقتضاها ، وإلا وجب تركها والإعراض عنها ،

And sometimes some people say i have seen prophet(pbuh) in a dream, prophet(pbuh) has said these things to me, he has given me orders of these things, and he starts practicing on it and due to this he leaves the boundaries of Islamic law and this is a mistake because dream of non-prophet’s on any issue cannot be included under part of Islamic law and we cannot reject the Islamic law which is with us. It is obligatory that the the dreams which clashes with the shariyah has to be left and rejected.[Al Aites`aam PAGE 184]

If they really want to believe on the dream of this unknown person then what about this?

Imam Muhammad bin Hammad Rahimaullah said
” رَأَيْتُ النَّبِيّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي المنام، فَقُلْتُ: يَا رَسُولَ اللهِ، مَا تَقُولُ فِي النظر في كلام أبي حنيفة وأصحابه، وأنظر فيها وأعمل عليها؟ قال: لا، لا، لا، ثلاث مرات. قلت: فما تقول في النظر في حديثك وحديث أصحابك، أنظر فيها وأعمل عليها؟ قال: نعم، نعم، نعم ثلاث مرات. ثم قلت: يَا رَسُولَ الله ، عَلّـِمْــنِي دُعَاءً أَدْعُو بِهِ، فعـلمني دعاء وقاله لي ثلاث مرات، فلما استيقظت نسيته.”
I saw Prophet peace be upon him in my dream. I asked O Messenger of Allah: What do you say regarding the seeing the kalam of Abu Hanifa and his companions? Can i see and practice that? He (peace be upon him) said three times NO, NO, NO. Then i asked what do you say regarding seeing your hadith and hadith of your companions? Can i see and practice upon that? He (peace be upon him) said three times, YES, YES YES. Then i asked that teach me a prayer so that i can pray that. Then he taught me a dua and repeated three times but when i woke up I forgot the dua.[Tareekh Baghdad 13/403]

I hope the matter is clear for those who are seeking the truth.

Objection no: 4. (Abu Muawiyah Muhammad bin Khazim himself said his teacher alAmash is Mudallis, and The narration in Tareekh al Kabeer has a shorter version without the story of this unknown person.)

Abu Muawiyah Muhammad bin Khazim said Amash did tadlees [Tareekh al Kabeer 1/74]

So, Here we see Abu Muawiyah who is narrating this athar from alAmash, he himself knew his teacher was Mudallis. Imam Ibn Hajar asqalani said:

He was trustworthy the best preserver of ahadith from al-Amash amongst the people. [atTaqreeb: 5841]

Students of hadith know that If mudallis narrates from (AN) then He is not Evidence, Imam Shafiee said in his ar-Risalah:1033

ومن عرفناه دلس مرة فقد أبان لنا عورته فى روايته
If We know some one has done tadlees for once, He has shown us his faults

Then he said
لا نقبل من مدلس حديثا حتى يقول فيه حدثني أو سمعت
We do not take hadeeth from a mudallis unless he say Haddathanee (Hadeeth narrated to me) or Samiatu (I heard him)(ar-Risalah:1035, Sakhawi had same opinion see Fth ul Mughees be Sharah al-Faqeehul hadeeth Vol 1 page 193]

Secondly Imam Bukhari mentioned with the chain of Muhammad bin Khaazim:
(( مالك بن عياض الدار أن عمر قال في قحط يا رب لا آلو إلا ما عجزت عنه قاله علي عن محمد بن خازم عن أبي صالح عن مالك الدار ))
Maalik bin Iyaad ad-Dar that Umar said in the drought “O my Lord, I spare no effort except in what escapes my power!” The chain is Ali (bin Madeeni) from Muhammad bin Khaazim from Abi Saaleh from Maalik ad-dar[Tareekh al Kabeer 304 / 7 ]

So Imam Bukhari mentioned from Ali bin Madeeni a shorter version of this narration.

Objection no:5 Malik Ad Dar is disputed Over (some says Known and Some says Unknown).

He is disputed over according to Ibn Hibban He is Thiqa, Ibn Saad said he is known (as far as his name and other things are concerned)

and according to Imaam Ibn Abi Hatim, Nuruddin Al Haythami and Mundari he is unknown (regarding his being trustworthy in hadeeth)

Ibn Hibban said regarding him

مالك بن عياض الدار يروى عن عمر بن الخطاب روى عنه أبو صالح السمان وكان مولى لعمر بن الخطاب

Malik bin ‘Iyad ad-Dar He has taken traditions from Umar Faroq, and Abu Saleh al-Samman, and He was a slave freed by ‘Umar bin al-Khattab.

Kitab At Thiqqath Vol 5, Page No. 384

Ibn Saad said

مالك الدار مولى عمر بن الخطاب وقد انتموا إلى جبلان من حمير وروى مالك الدار عن أبي بكر الصديق وعمر رحمهما الله روى عنه أبو صالح السمان وكان معروفا
Malik ad-Dar was a slave freed by ‘Umar bin al-Khattab. He reported traditions from Abu Bakr as-Siddiq and ‘Umar, and Abu Salih Samman reported traditions from him. He was known[Tabqaat al Kubra Vol 5 Page 12] but on the Other hand

Noor ud din Haythami said in Majma Az Zawaid regarding his narration

رواه الطبراني في الكبير . ومالك الدار لم أعرفه وبقيه رجاله ثقات

Narrated by At Tabranee in Kabeer and I don’t know about Malik ad Dar , and other narrators are Trustworthy

Hafidh Mundhari also records the same in his Thargeeb wat Tharheeb
ومالك الدار لا أعرفه
Malik Ad Dar is not Known [Targheeb At Tarheeb 2/29]

Imam Bukhari mentioned him in Tareekh al Kabeer Vol 7 Page 304 and mentioned no Jarh no Tadeel

Imam Ibne Abi Hatim mentioned him in Al Jarh Wa Tadeel and mentioned no Jarh and Tadeel on him

Note: Shaykh Irshad ul Haq Athree said If Ibn Abee Haatim remain silent about a narrator in his book al-Jarh WaTa’deel this is evidence that the narrator is unknown according to him, see his book Taudheeh al-Kalaam (2/441-442), as Ibn Abi Haatim said
على انا قد ذكرنا اسامى كثيرة مهملة من الجرح والتعديل كتبناها ليشتمل الكتاب على كل من روى عنه العلم رجاء وجود الجرح والتعديل فيهم فنحن ملحقوها بهم من بعد إن شاء الله تعالى

“I have mentioned many name without al Jarh wa Tadeel, I have mentioned them so that this book will contain all those narrators from whom this knowledge of hadeeth is narrated, for the hope that if i find jarh wa tadeel on those narrators then i will mention them.” [al Jarh wa Tadeel 2/38]

So when he did not find any Jarh wa Tadeel on any narrator still he mentioned them him in his book, it clearly means the narrator is majhool according to him.

Even If we consider him Trustworthy it does not effect on the weakness of this athar.

Objection no: 6 Inqita (discontinuity in the chain) between Abu Salih Al Samaan and Malik Ad Darr.)

There is Inqita between Abu Salih al Samaan and Malik Darr.

According to Abu Zura ra it is not proven that Abu Salih heard from Abu Zar ra as mentioned in Tahdeeb 3/190 and Tohfa tul Tahseel page 101 of al-Iraqee, al Maraseel page 57
and it is mentioned in Jame al-Tahseel page 173 of al-Alaai
ذكوان أبو صالح السمان معروف قال أبو زرعة لم يلق أبا ذر وهو عن أبي بكر وعن عمر وعن علي رضي الله عنهم مرسل
“Zakwan who was famous (with the name of) Abu Saaleh as-Samaan. Abu Zura said: “He did not hear from Abu Zar and His narrations are Mursal from Abu Bakr, Umar and Ali May Allah be pleased with them all.(end quote)

This confirms that Abu Salih did not hear from Ali ra. And it is impossible that he heard from Maalik ad-dar who was مخضرم (who saw the era of jahalah and Islam but they never saw Prophet peace be upon him) as Ibn Hajar asqalani mentioned these people in third type in AL-Isaba fe Tameez alSahaba.

Its for this reason why Ibn Hajr in Fathul baari gives the verdict as follows :
وروى بن أبي شيبة بإسناد صحيح من رواية أبي صالح السمان عن مالك الداري] Ibn Abu Shaybah narrated it with a Authentic chain the narration from Abi Salih as Samaan from Malik al Dar(end)

This means that the chain is sahih only Up to Abu salih otherwise he would just simply said: It’s Isnaad is Sahih, even though as cleared if the isnad is sahih that does not mean hadith is also sahih, 2ndly Hafidh Khalili in kitaabul Irshad says , after saying he was tabiyee and quoted the same narration after that he said

يقال إن أبا صالح سمع مالك الدار هذا الحديث والباقون ارسلوه
It is said:Abu Salih hear it directly from Malik Darr and others say he gave it the way as Mursal. [Al-Irshad fi Ma’rifa Ulama al-Hadith of Hafiz al-Khalili (1/314)]

Objection no: 7 Amash is Mudallis and narrating from (AN).

Amash is Mudallis Hafiz Ibn Hajar mentioned him in Tabqa Thaniyah in [Tabqaat al Mudalliseen (2/55)]

But he also mentioned him in 3rd Martaba of Mudalliseen in [Al Nikat al Ibn al Salah (2/640)]

In this chain Amash is Narrating from (An) and Mudallis is not Evidence in his tadlees, But, Hafiz Dahabee said
He is mudallis, and sometimes he narrates in this manner from a weak narrator without realising it. When he says haddathana [he told us], there is no problem with that, but when he says ‘an [narrating from], there is the possibility of tadlees except in the case of narration from the shuyookh from whom he narrated a great deal, such as Ibraaheem, Abu Waa’il and Abu Saalih al-Sammaan. His narration from these shaykhs is to be understood as meaning that he heard directly from them and there is no interruption in the chain. [Mizaan al-I’tidaal (2/224)]

Above quote is not accepted by many great Muhadditheen.

Shaykh Zubair Ali Zai said.
There could be two meanings of the saying of Dahabee.
1.Normally the narrations from These sauyukh of Amash are presumed to posses sound linkage because in these narrations most of them we find his hearing from his teachers
2. All the narrations from these shuyukh are to be understood as meaning that there is no interruption in the chain
if we take 2nd meaning then it is wrong because of different reasons. Al hadith no: 66 page 9

Then Shaykh provided different sayings of scholars where Amash is narrating hadith (An) abu saleh (meaning he is doing tadlees) and Muhadditheen said its weak due to tadlees of Amash.

Note that Shaykh Mohib ullah Shah ar-Rashidi Rahimaullah went against the stance of Shaykh Zubair Ali Zai Rahimullah. He was on the opinion of those Muhadditheen who said Amash was Mudallis, But when he narrates from Abu Saleh then his hadeeth is acceptable unless it is proven that Amash did Tadlees from Abu Saleh.

1. Hafidh An Nawawi

Nawawi said regaring the hadith of Amash where he was narrating from (An)

وَالْأَعْمَش مُدَلِّس وَقَدْ قَدَّمْنَا أَنَّ الْمُدَلِّس لَا يُحْتَجّ

Hafiz Nawawi said regarding Amash (An) Abi Saleh

أَنَّ الْأَعْمَش مُدَلِّسٌ وَالْمُدَلِّس إِذَا قَالَ ( عَنْ ) لَا يُحْتَجّ بِهِ إِلَّا أَنْ يَثْبُتَ سَمَاعُهُ مِنْ جِهَةٍ أُخْرَى وَقَدْ قَدَّمْنَا فِي الْفُصُول وَفِي شَرْح الْمُقَدِّمَة أَنَّ مَا كَانَ فِي الصَّحِيحَيْنِ عَنْ الْمُدَلِّسِينَ( بِعَنْ ) فَمَحْمُول عَلَى ثُبُوت سَمَاعهمْ مِنْ جِهَةٍ أُخْرَى . وَاَللَّه أَعْلَمُ . ‏

Commentary of sahih Muslim vol 1 under the hadeeth 109

Nawawi again said regarding hadith of Amash (AN) abi saleh

عَنْ الْأَعْمَش عَنْ أَبِي صَالِح , وَالْأَعْمَش مُدَلِّسٌ وَالْمُدَلِّسُ إِذَا قَالَ : ( عَنْ ) لَا يُحْتَجُّ بِهِ

Summary of saying is that

Amash was mudallis and if mudallis narrates from (AN) then He is not Evidence and (MunAN) narrations of Mudalliseen in Sahihyeen(Bukhari and Muslim) are presumed to possess sound linkage.

2. Hafiz ibn Jawzi said regarding the hadeeth of Amash from Abi saleh

هاذا حديث لا يصح

This hadith is not authentic.

and then he quoted Imam Ahmad by saying: There is no Asal of this hadeeth and Imam Ahmad said that Amash didn’t heard this from Abu Saleh
Al alal al mutnahiyah vol 1 page 437 hadith 736

3. Hafiz Ibn al Qattan said regarding the hadith where Amash is narrating from Abu saleh

ومعنعن الاعمش عرضة لتبين الانقطاع فإنه مدلس

Here he said that Amash is mudallis and there is Inqeta in chain

Bayan al wahim wal ihyaam vol 2 hadith 441

4. Al Hakim writes in reference to a hadith about Laylat al Qadr with the isnad al A’mash from (‘an) Abu Salih.

لم يسمع هذا الحديث الأعمش من أبي صالح

Al Hakim says: “Al A’mash did not hear this hadith from Abu Salih”, and offers an alternate isnad by way of al A’mash and Suhayl b. Abi Salih Ma’rifat ‘Ulum al Hadith (ـ35)

5. Sufiyan bin Saeed at-Thawri said

: « لم يسمع الأعمش هذا الحديث من أبي صالح الإمام ضامن.

Amash didn’t herad this hadith of Imam Zamin from Abi saleh

Sunan al Kubra al behqi 3/127, Tareekh Ibne Maieen Riwayat ad Dorri 3/497

6. Al Bayhaqi points out the defect in the Hadith of Amash from Abi Saleh saying that

And Amash surely didn’t heard this hadeeth from Abu Saleh. Sunan Al Kubra 1/430

7 Abu al Fadhal Muhammad bin Abi Hussain Al Harwi (317 h)

He mentioned same defect regarding hadith of Amash from Abi Saleh in (Ilal Al Ahadeeth fe Kitab Al Saheeh Muslim page 138 hadeeth 35)

8. Ibn Hibban said

و أمّا المدلسون الذين هم ثقات و عدول فإنا لا نحتج باخبارهم الا ما بينوا السماع في ما رووا مثل الثوري و الاعمش و أبي اسحاق و أضرابهم

Those mudallisoon who are ThIqqah Adil but we take only those narrations in evidence from them in which they do tasreeh of sama like Thawri, Al Amash and Abu Ishaq. Al Ihsan vol 1 page 161

9. Imam Ibn Jareer Tabree said

إن الأعمش عندهم مدلس، ولا يجوز عندهم من قبول خبر المدلس إلا ما قال فيه حدثنا أو سمعت وما أشبه ذلك

Al Amash is Mudallis according to me, and It is not allowed according to me to accept the narration of mudallis except he says i heard this hadeeth or narrated to us (end)(Tahzeeb al Athar Musnad Ali bin abi Talib page 4 after the hadeeth no: 3)

and so many other References can be provided, and one more thing to be noted that Abbas Ridvi Brelvi who is famous debater of Brelvism in Pakistan he said

10. Abbas Ridvi Brelvi Did Jirha on Amash (An) Abi saleh hadeeth and Said

ایک راوی امام اعمش ہیں جو اگرچہ بہت بڑے امام ہیں لیکن مدلس ہیں اور مدلس راوی جب عن سے روایت کرے تو اس کی روایت بالاتفاق مردود ہو گی

A Narrator is Imam Amash, Who is greatest Imam but he is Mudallis and when Mudallis narrate with (AN) then his Narration is Bil Ittefaaq Rejected

Wallah aap Zindah hain page 319 (Wallah You(peace be upon him) are Alive page 319)

11. In a narration of Mustadrak Al Hakim from the Route Amash (AN) Abi Wail

Aisha RA did Takzeeb of Amar bin Al Aas ra (Vol 4 Page 13)

This is not acceptable because Amash is doing tadlees.

And in Tareekh Yaqoob bin Sufiyan Al Farsi vol 2 page 771

Huzaifa RA pointed out Abu Moosa Al Ashari to be a Munafiq

But this hadeeth is weak due to Tadlees of Amash. what will these people say regarding these ahadith?

12. Abu Dawud

Abu Dawud in his Sunan records the hadith in the way al Bayhaqi mentions, namely with the chain: al A’mash from a man from Abu Salih, with an unnamed intermediary between al A’mash and Abu Salih ‏

‏حدثنا ‏ ‏الحسن بن علي ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏ابن نمير ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الأعمش ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏نبئت ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي صالح ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏ولا ‏ ‏أراني إلا قد ‏ ‏سمعته ‏ ‏منه ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي هريرة ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏مثله ‏

Amash said

(From Abu saleh and i think i have heard this from Abu Saleh)

Abu Dawood Kitab as-Salaah hadeeth no: 517

Note: he himslef is in doubt whether he heard this hadith from Abu Saleh or not

13. Imam Aynee alHanafi said

“Verily A’mash is a mudallis and the annanna of a mudallis is unreliable up until we have knowledge of him hearing (the narration directly.)” Umdatul-Qaaree Sharh Saheeh al-Bukhaari (3:184 no.218), Dar al-Kotob al-Ilmiyah, Beirut, Lebanon, Edn 1st 2001/1421 Of Shaikh Badr ud deen al-Ainee.

14. Imam Karabisee said regarding alAmash

دلس عن زيد بن وهب كثيرا, و عن ابى الضحى و ابراهيم بن يزيد و ابى صالح و مجاهد وشقيق هؤلاء كلهم قد دلس عنهم وكذلك المنهال وغيره.
He did tadlees many times from Wahb bin katheer and from Abul Duha and from Ibraheem bin Yazeed, and Abu Saleh and Mujahid and Shaqeeq..[Ikmaal Tahdeeb alKamal 6/92 by Mughlati bin Qaleeh alHanafi (689-762h)]

15. Imam Ibn Khuzaima

Imam Ibn Khuzaima did jarh on a hadith because Amash is narrating from (an) [Kitab atTawheed 1/87]

In fact he was also on the view that if Amash hear from Abu Saleh then it is saheeh otherwise not, as he said after quoting two chains of Amash (an) Abi Saleh:
خبر ابى صالح عن ابى هريرة قد سمعه الاعمش عن ابى صالح وليس هو مما دلسه وخبر ابى سعيد فى هذا الاسناد صحيح لا شك فيه وانما الشك فى خبر ابى سعيد ذاك الاسناد دون خبر ابي هريرة كذلك
The Khabar of Abi Saleh (an) Abi Huraira Amash heard from Abi Saaleh and He is not making Tadlees, and The chain of Khabar of Abi Saeed (the Muhaqqiq Dr. Abdul Aziz bin Ibraheem said its Abu Huraira not Abi Saeed) is Saheeh there is no doubt about it, But the doubt is on the Khabr of Abi Saeed.. [see Kitab atTawheed page 109 hadeeth no: 159 and 160]

16. Imam Ibn Abdul Barr

He quoted muhadditheen that Amash is Mudallis [atTamheed 1/30]

17. Imam Munzari

He criticised on a narration where Amash is narrating from (an) [Targheeb wal-Tarheeb 4/252]

18. Imam atTahawi

Even Imam at-Tahawi quoted a criticism on a narration of Amash (an) Abi Saleh and then quoted his hearing from other narration [Mushkil alAthaar Vol 5 page 435]

19. Imam Darqutni

He said regarding the hadith of Amash (an) Abu Saleh
ولعل الاعمش دلسه عن حبيب وأظهر اسمه مرد، والله أعلم
And Amash did tadlees from Habeeb and showed his name once[Al Ilal 10/95]

Means Amash said (an) Abu Saleh and did not mentioned the name of a narrator in between him and Abu Saleh, but once he mentioned the name of that narrator i.e. Habeeb who is Habeeb bin abi thabit.

20. Imam alBazzar

He said regarding the hadith of Amash (an) Abi Saleh where a sahabi said he prayed salah after sun rise.
هذا الحديث كلامه منكر؟ ولعل الأعمش أخذه من غير ثقة! ثم دلسه، فصار ‏ظاهر سنده الصحة! وليس للحديث عندي أصل
The kalam of this hadith is Munkar and Amash took this from a non trustworthy and did tadlees and apparently the chain became authentic. There is no base of this hadith according to me.[Fath ul Bari 8/462]

21. Imam Abdul Rahman bin Mahdi

He said regarding the hadeeth of Amash (an) Ibraheem. “This is from the weak ahadeeth of Amash”[Al-Ilal Imam Ahmad 2/413 under 2845]

This proves that according to Bazzar ra if Amash narrates from (an) even from Abu Saleh then he is not evidence.

22. Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal

He said regarding Amash (an) Abu Wail that Amash did not hear this from Abu Wail [Kitab al-Ilal 2/252]

Imam Abu Dawud said

سمعت أحمد سئل عن الرجل يعرف بالتدليس يحتج فيما لم يقل فيه سمعت ؟ قال : لا أدري .
فقلت : الأعمش متى تصاد له الألفاظ .
قال : يضيق هذا ، أي أنك تحتج به
I heard Imam Ahmad was asked regarding a Man who is known for tadlees, should we take evidence from him when he has not said “I heard”.

Imam Ahmad replied “I Don’t know”

I said, what about al Amash when these expressions are brought to him?

He said: This is hard meaning they are evidence. [Sawalaat abu dawud li Ahmad no. 138]

23. Imam Abu Zura alRazi

He criticised on the hadith of Amash (an) Abi Wail “Amash did tadlees sometimes”[Ilal alHadeeth Ibn Abi Hatim 1/14]

24. Imam alBuseri

He said regarding a hadith of Amash (an) Abi Saleh (the hadith in Fadail of Abu Bakr ra)

اسناده الى ابي هريرة فيه مقال، لان سلمان بن مهران الاعمش يدلس،

There is problem in the chain of Abu Huraira, Suleman bin Mehran Amash was a Mudallis [Ibn Maja 1/36]

25. Yaqub bin Sufiyan al-Fasawi said

وَحَدِيثُ سُفْيَانَ ، وَأَبِي إِسْحَاقَ ، وَالْأَعْمَشِ مَا لَمْ يُعْلَمْ أَنَّهُ مُدَلِّسٌ يَقُومُ مَقَامَ الْحُجَّةِ
The Hadith of Sufiyan, Abi Ishaq and al-Amash are evidence unless it is known that they have done tadlees [Tareekh Yaqub bin Sufiyan al-Fasawi 2/637]

So surely we can Conclude Amash was Mudallis and if he narrates from the mode (AN) then his hadeeth is not evidence even if the chain is saheeh as proven from Muhadditheen. They have to prove that Amash did hear this specific athar from Abu Saaleh al-Samaan

Objection no. 8: Muhadditheen on the hadith of Umar ra

  1. Saying of Imam Mahmood Alusi on the athar of Umar ra:

he, said in Tafsir of the Ayat: “Seek Wasilah to Him” (Maidah : 35) in his ‘Ruh Al-Ma’ani”

“And if we suppose it there is not but Iqsam (swearing) with alive and Tawassul (intermediation) with him, and making his (saw) state of life as his state of death in this topic needs a clear text and probably the text is opposed to that, as there is in “Sahih Al-Bukhari” from Anas that “Umar ibn Al-Khattab when they faced drought sought rain with Abbas and said: “O Allah we used to do Tawassul with Your Prophet (saw) and You gave us rain, and now we do Tawassul to You with the uncle of our Prophet, give us rain” and they were given rain. And if there was Tawassul with him (saw) after his departure from this world, why did they turn to other than him? Rather they would have said: “O Allah we do Tawassul with Your Prophet, give us rain.”

And they are far away from turning away from the Tawassul of the Prophet (saw) to the Tawassul with his uncle ‘Abbas…while they were first forerunners (As-Sabiqun Al-Awalun), and they were more knowledgeable than us about Allah and His Prophet (saw), and the rights of Allah and His Prophet saw, what is legislated in invocation and what is not legislated, and they were in time of huge need, they were seeking relief from difficulties and easiness of difficult, and descent of rain with all ways, this is clear proof that the legislated is what they did without others…

As for the first information, the saying of Umar : “We used to do Tawassul with Your Prophet (saw)” and as for second his saying : “and now we do Tawassul with uncle of Your Prophet (saw)” because it is said : This Tawassul is not from chapter of Iqsam rather it is from categories of seeking intercession, and this is to seek invocation from an individual and his intercession, and seeking from Allah that he accepts his invocation and intercession. And this is supported by the fact that Abbas was invoking and they were trusting his invocation until rain came.”

Imam Alusi said further: “Secondly, people have increased in invoking other than Allah from loved Awliya from dead and other, like saying “Ya Sayidi Fulan Aghithni” (O so and so saint, save me) and this is not from permitted kinds of Tawassul in anything…a great number of scholars have considered this to be polytheism…and I do not see anybody who says this except that he believes that the invoked alive absent or hidden dead knows the invisible or hears his saying and is capable by himself or with other to bring good and remove problems, and if not he would not call him nor open his mouth, and in this there is a great test from Allah… (end of Al Alousi words)

2. Saying of Allamah Ropuri On the athar of Umar ra

The action of this unknown man is in fact a proof against people advocating Istishfa on grave. ‘Allamah ‘Abdullah Ar-Ropuri said in his “Sima’ Mawta” p 101-102:

“It is known that this is not a prove for you but against you, because he was told in the dream to go to ‘Umar, and ‘Umar was alive at that time, so it is known that intercession of people alive should be sought not from dead…what you mentioned to support you is in fact refuting you, and despite this you do not understand, may Allah help you to pay attention: “he who struggles to seek will find and he who knocks with determination at the door will enter. ” End of Allamah Ar-Ropuri’s words.

And none of the Muhadith like Al-Bukhari, the authors of Sunnan and lowest books has a chapter about seeking intercession from the Prophet (saw) beside his grave. [taken from]

3. Hafiz Suyuti on the athar of Umar ra

Imaam Suyooti in his work :الأمر بالاتباع والنهي عن الابتداع -السيوطي Under the Chapter تعظيم الأماكن التي لا تستحق التعظيم (Veneration of those places which are not applicable for veneration) On page 25 he said
فإن قصد القبور للدعاء رجاء الإجابة فمنهي عنه، وهو إلى التحريم أقرب. والصحابة رضي الله
عنهم – وقد أجدبوا مراتٍ – ودهمتهم نوائب بعد موته (، فهلا جاءوا فاستسقوا واستغاثوا عند قبر
النبي ( وهو أكرم الخلق على الله عز وجل، بل خرج فيهم سيدنا عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه
بالعباس عم النبي ( إلى المصلى فاستسقى به، ولم يستسقوا عند قبر النبي (.
فاقتد أيها المسلم إن كنت عبد الله بسلفك الصالح، وتحقق التوحيد الخالص؛ فلا تعبد إلا الله، ولا
تشرك بربك أحداً، كما أمر الله تعالى بقوله: (فإياي فاعبدون)، وقال تعالى: (فمن كان يرجو لقاء ربه
فليعمل عملاً صالحاً ولا يشرك بعبادة ربه أحداً). فلا تعبد إلا إياه ولا تد ع إلا هو، ولا تستعن إلا به،
فإنه لا مانع ولا معطي ولا مضار ولا نافع إلا هو سبحانه وتعالى، لا إله إلا هو عليه توكلت وإليه

For Verily visiting the graves with the intention that our prayers will be accepted is not allowed and it is closer to Haram

Sahaba faced so many difficulties after the death of Prophet (peace be upon him) drought came to them,…….. so Why didn’t they came to the grave of Prophet of Allah? Why they didn’t requested him (peace be upon him) for rain? Why they didn’t call at his grave? Prophet (SAW) is the highest of the creation in the sight of Allah

In fact at the time of drought OMAR Ra went to Eid GAH with Abbas RA and asked him to pray for rain(prayer of istesqa see Sahih bukhari for detailed athar). They never prayed near grave of Prophet (peace be upon him). O Muslim If You are follower of Allah like your Salaf as Saleh were so follow them, do Research of Correct Tauheed, Do not Worship other then Allah, Do not Make Partners of Allah. As Allah Commanded (Therefore worship Me.) and Allah says (So whoever hopes for the meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord.”) (end)

Objection no. 9: Not a single scholar mentioned this narration under Istigatha or Tawassul through the Prophet peace be upon him

Dr Hatem al-Haj said: The major scholars of hadeeth who related this narration in their collections titled this report under various headings, such as istisqaa’ or the virtues of Omar, and not under the permissibility of making tawassul by the prophet after his death (blessings and peace be upon him)[Amja Online Fatwa id 87015]

Ibn Hajar asqalani was himself against asking help from dead or seeking aid etc, Hafidh Ibn Hajar asqalani said:
(لكنه لا يستعاذ الا بالله أو بصفة من صفات ذاته

There is no seeking refuge but only to Allah and from the attributes of his dhaat. Fath ul Bari Kitab al Eman Ch 12

Ibn Hajar Asqalani said:
(قال نعيم بن حماد في الرد على الجهمية : دلت هذه الأحاديث يعني الواردة في الاستعاذة بأسماء الله وكلماته والسؤال بها مثل أحاديث الباب وحديث عائشة وأبي سعيد بسم الله أرقيك وكلاهما عند مسلم وفي الباب عن عبادة وميمونة وأبي هريرة وغيرهم عند النسائي وغيره بأسانيد جياد على أن القرآن غير مخلوق إذ لو كان مخلوقاً لم يستعذ بها ، إذ لا يستعاذ بمخلوق ، قال الله تعالى (فاستعذ بالله) ، وقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم : (وإذا استعذت فاستعذ باللهFathul Bari Kitab at Tawheed ch 13

…”There is no Seeking refuge in creation !” Allah says (ask help from Allah) and Prophet peace be upon him said (If you want to ask, ask from Allah)

Scholars’ understanding of this narration (quoted by Um. Abdullah)

1. Hafidh Ibn Hajar al Asqalani -rahimahu Allah- in his books “Fath al Bari” (vol 3 pg. 441):
He sites it in chapter “The people asking the Imam to do istisqa’ in times of drought,” in the chapter heading section, in which he quotes ahadith that have relevance to the chapter heading, and that connect it with hadiths that come under that chapter.
Amongst those narrations he mentions the narration of Malik al Dar, and he only quotes part of the narration, he stops at “go to Umar”. He used this as evidence that people ask the imam to do istisqa (ask for rain) for them in times of drought.
He didn’t mention the rest of the hadith because it has nothing to do with the chapter heading, he only quoted what he believed fits the chapters title, for he says at the end of the section, after mentioning this narration:

ظَهَرَ بِهَذَا كُلّه مُنَاسَبَة التَّرْجَمَة لِأَصْلِ هَذِهِ الْقِصَّة أَيْضًا وَاَللَّه الْمُوَفِّق .
“From all of this appears the relevance of the chapter heading to the origin of this story“
so, al Hafidh Ibn Hajar rahimahu Allah understood from this hadith that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was directing the man to go ask the Imam, during that time (Umar radiyallahu anhu), to do istisqa’ for them.

2. Hafidh Ibn Kathir -rahimahu Allah-:

He sites it in his book “al Bidayah wan Nihaya ” (vol7 pg.104 ),in which he mentions some narrations, right before he mentions Malik ad Dar’s narration, which explain the meaning of the narration.

The narrations before it are by Sayf Ibn Umar, and in them is the mentioning of Umar radiyallahu anhu, after hearing about the man’s dream (who is said to be Bilal al Harith), asking the people on the minbar if they have seen anything bad from him, and then he tells them about the dream that Bilal saw, so they told him:

“Bilal has spoken the truth, so make istiqatha (seek or ask for help) to Allah, then the Muslims”. So then Umar radiyallahu anhu does istisqa’ through al Abbas radiyallahu anhu.

In the second narration, they said “he found you slow in doing istisqa’, so do istisqa’ for us “, so he did.

(Note: these 2 narrations could be weak, but the point is that al Hafidh Ibn Kathir rahimahu Allah mentioned them right before the narration of Malik, showing what it is about, which shows what he understood it to mean, same as what Ibn Hajar (r A) understood from it).

3. Shihab adDeen Abdur Rahman bin Askar al Baghdadi al Maliki (d. 732)

In his book “Irshad as-Salik ila Ashraf al Masalik fi fiqh al Imam Malik”:
He sited it in chapter of (istisqa’ – asking for rain), in which he said (before siting the narration of Malik al Dar):
ويستحب الاستشفاع بأهل الخير والصلاح وأهل بيت النبوة
“and it is recommanded/liked to do istishfa’ (intercession) by righteous/pious people, and ahl al bayt”

Then he quotes the narration that is in sahih, the tawassul of Umar through al Abbas (radiyallahu anhuma), and right after it he says “and Ibn Abi Shayba narrated”, and quotes Malik ad Dar’s narration.

so this clearly shows that he used the narration of Malik as evidence for “doing istishfa’ through ahl al bayt, for al Abbas ra was the uncle f the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, and the dream the man saw, was guiding him to ask Umar to do istisqa’ for the people, in which he did it through al Abbas radiyallahu anhu

4. Ala’ ad Deen Ali al Mutaqi al Hindi al Burhan Furi (d. 975) in his book “Kanz al Ummal

“He sites it in chapter of (salat al Istisqa’ – prayer for rain), and what the man did at the grave of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was asking for dua, not istisqa’ prayer, and salat al Istisqa’ was done by Umar radiyallahu anhu, when he made tawassul through Al Abbas radiyallahu anhu, thus both narrations are connected to each other, as shown in the previous points.

Conclusion: That the story of Malik al Dar’s narration is connected to the hadith about Umar’s tawassul through al Abbas, all leading to doing istisqa’ through the living, and not through the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam after his death.
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